Suggestion Player vs Player!

[KabbyDankGod]

Hey fellow Eturians.

I'm here to talk about something that could be a large part of Dyescape if done properly. As you see from the title, today we'll be talking about PvP. As a competitive person, I do find PvP very rewarding and something I want to see in Dyescape. This is definitely something that wouldn't be added in the alpha, but in the beta, you could maybe have one of the PvP forms I suggest below.

Dennis has already spoken out semi against PvP, but I'm fairly certain he meant this as world PvP. He has already said that there is a possibility of adding a PvP toggle, but why would someone toggle PvP on? Here are some suggestions on how to handle PvP!

1. PvP and PvE Realms.
- I'm going to keep this brief as specific realms/servers would be a big big big thing for the server. This would make it so people who enjoy PvP would be able to play on the PvP server, where PvP is always toggled on for everyone, while PvP could be toggleable on PvE servers, or you just add a duel function. On top of having PvP realms, introducing a splitting path in the story that allows for two opposing factions would be good for the server, and I could create another suggestion just talking about this. But in general, splitting players into possibly four different servers, NA PvP, NA PvE, EU PvP and EU PvE could be healthy for the server, but it might split up the community too much. (This really depends on the number of players the server gets.)

2. PvP Arena
- PvP arena would be what it sound like. People queue for an arena match, where they are matched against someone with equal AP (Arena Points, could be changed ofc to something else.) When in the match, both players see each other's AP, Class, Branch, and level before the match. They then have 60 seconds to sort out their talents before the match begins. After a five-second countdown, the both of them are released into the arena where they fight in a match best of three or best of five. This could then be expanded onto 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 game modes. Each arena would be a bit larger than the other ones to make room for all the new people. (This is the one that would be the best to add during beta for testing PvP.)

3. PvP Battlegrounds and world battles.
- Battlegrounds and world battles would simply be larger arenas, this time being able to queue for matches of 20vs20 and 40vs40 for battlegrounds and 100vs100 for world battles. Battlegrounds arenas would be way larger than normal arenas, usually having either flags to capture or points to hold. You could also have battlegrounds where you have to kill an enemy king etc. World battles would be way larger. This would include lots of capture points, some PvE mobs, etc. A large battle that could take multiple hours to continue. It also uses the AP system, but a bit more leniently.


Now it's time for general PvP systems.

1. Kill Points
- KP or Kill points would be the way of earning rewards in PvP. When you kill a player you gain kill points, when you capture a flag or a point you gain kill points and of course when you win you gain kill points. These kill points can then be exchanged for...

2. PvP Rewards
- PvP rewards are all kinds of armor, weapons, trinkets and recipes. Depending on your AP you unlock better gear. This gear can be used in both PvP and PvE, The best PvP gear will always be as good as the best PvE gear and vice versa.

3. PvP Titles
- I'm not sure if titles are a thing on Dyescape, but these would be situated next to your name on the nameplate. Titles can be gained from gaining AP or achievements. These achievements could be something like, healed 1,000,000 health while in an arena, or gaining 10,000 AP.

If you have any opinions, suggestions or anything to say, comment below. Just like dual wielding, I'll be adding everyone's suggestions to this main post.

Other peoples additions:

After a dash I'll comment something or add some reference.

From Perotin and Escad: Separate zones for PvP that aren't necessary for those who are questing to enter. - Could work like wilderness from OSRS

From Perotin: Leaderboard for PvP - Could be linked to AP / Ranking system

From Perotin: PvP gear should be weaker than PvE gear.

From Aetheism: PvP world events that let the winner enter a raid, kill a world boss or some other form of PvE content for rewards.

From Aetheism: Towns that can be held by guilds. The town holding guild gains benefits such as: Tax money from NPC sells, Bonus rewards, Guild banners shown around town, fast travel to the held town, extra XP and Loot in the surrounding area of the town.

From Aetheism: PvP gear is the best gear for end game.

 

[Immortal]

Me likey.


But I feel the fact that they get to change their talents before a battle a bit unfair. Each could set them up to counter the other.

But a great suggestion! PvP rewards would be quite the incentive to battle...though I wonder what it would do to quest progression...

 

[KabbyDankGod]

Me likey.


But I feel the fact that they get to change their talents before a battle a bit unfair. Each could set them up to counter the other.

But a great suggestion! PvP rewards would be quite the incentive to battle...though I wonder what it would do to quest progression...

Most other MMOs allow you to change your talents and other such things before a duel after you know what you're fighting against. Mostly because you can get stomped if you don't have the correct things and it's okay if some classes destroy another class as long as there is another class that destroys them. Obviously it should be balanced like a skilled player would still have a chance but you get the idea.

Regarding rewards, these would be max level or nearly max level items. You could have some items you can buy that don't really impact the balance of the game, maybe rank specific cosmetics etc. But in general, this would be max / nearly max level content. Well unless world PvP is a thing then you get it.

 

[Perotin]

I would have all 3 of them along with designated areas where pvp is enabled, but make those areas non-significant to completing quests etc.

Basically, you want to make PvP optional for those who don't want to participate in it, but worthwhile for those who do. A leaderboard is a great way to make it worthwhile for those who want it whilst leaving it completely optional for those who feel otherwise. Destiny is a great game I like to cite when it comes to RPGs because their model is basically that. PvP can give you rewards that certainly impact the rest of the game, but not so significant that they alter it entirely, the best loot is still PvE gained.

 

[Escad_]

Your PvP arena idea reminds me of fighter mobile game-like online ranking duels. That and the world battles/battlegrounds sound quite interesting. I think certain PvP zones geared towards completing optional quest(-lines) would also work well to give the player a bit of a helping hand in terms of either players or enemy monsters.

 

[KabbyDankGod]

I would have all 3 of them along with designated areas where pvp is enabled, but make those areas non-significant to completing quests etc.

Basically, you want to make PvP optional for those who don't want to participate in it, but worthwhile for those who do. A leaderboard is a great way to make it worthwhile for those who want it whilst leaving it completely optional for those who feel otherwise. Destiny is a great game I like to cite when it comes to RPGs because their model is basically that.

Your PvP arena idea reminds me of fighter mobile game-like online ranking duels. That and the world battles/battlegrounds sound quite interesting. I think certain PvP zones geared towards completing optional quest(-lines) would also work well, either to give the player a bit of a helping in terms of either players or enemy monsters.

I'll clump these together as they're fairly similar in content.

This could be a way to solve the problem of people who want to PvP and people who don't to play on the same server. Though I do think that this PvP zone should have something to gather. Maybe a resource? Maybe it has an entrance to a dungeon or a raid? This would give people more of a reason to head to this zone / zones besides PvP. This could also be a good way of introducing people to the PvP side of Dyescape. Maybe if they really want that item they want to take a step into the zone to get it, making them a bit more comfortable about PvP.

PvP can give you rewards that certainly impact the rest of the game, but not so significant that they alter it entirely, the best loot is still PvE gained

This would generally be the plan, but PvP gear shouldn't be way weaker than PvE gear. Maybe you could make them "adaptive" making them on average being the same strength. (Max Raid tier would be equal to Max PvP rank gear) in base stats. Then when you enter PvP with your PvP gear on, you gain bonus stats and vice versa for PvE.

 

[Aetheism]

I've made lengthy explanations on how PvP could operate in the past, but to summarize, I believe that it should play a role in acquiring certain prestige gear or taking part in certain endgame content via world events that require PvP battles between groups.

Imagine there was a daily raid that only allowed a single group in. Many groups would compete for control of a specific area, and have to hold it long enough to gain entrance. Towns could also have an 'ownership' mechanic involving guilds. Every weekend, for 72 hours, towns would become contestable through a similar mechanic. The group that controlled the town for the longest period of time(holding first/last and during specific times would lend bonus points) would then gain control of it, allowing the guild's banner to be flown, a fast-travel to be unlocked, a tax of NPC purchases, an XP/loot bonus in the surrounding area, along with other case-specific perks.

 

[Aetheism]

I also believe that PvP gear should lend the best drops for PvP and end-game related activities. The type of player to beat the game, by nature, have a competitive outlook. Integrating PvP into the end-game would be a great way to minimize player burnout while also allowing for direct competition and status signifiers.

 

[MFsWonders]

I would like PVP as well because I'm a competitive person, so if we do implement any of those 3 options. I have some possible suggestions in mind so that PVP can be seen as more fun and inviting.

- For PVP Arena, maybe have it so when you die you keep your inventory unless you toggle on/off whether your loot drops. (Both competitors must agree to letting loot drop, if one of them disagree either play w/out loot drop or persuade them)
- Specific PVP shop in either 3 options that has your currency be items that you can pick up in the PVP area or items dropped when you kill a person (ex. Chests w/ 1-2 coins scattered across the map and when you kill a person, their death drops 4-6 coins)
- To make it not that easy to find these chests, there are difficult mobs around the PVP arena.
- These PVP shop items would be good armor and good weapons in killing people, but not in PVE situations. Also, they can only be used in the PVP areas, once they've entered back into the PVE realm/area they can't use them.
- Also for festive stuff, during seasons/holidays the PVP realm changes to such a thing. (Ex. Winter = Santa & Krampus (Bosses) & their minions walk around the pvp area; Autumn = The Pumpkin King (Boss) & his scarecrow army, etc.)

It makes the PVP area more dynamic and a little bit more kind to not-so-experienced PVP players.

 

[KabbyDankGod]

I would like PVP as well because I'm a competitive person, so if we do implement any of those 3 options. I have some possible suggestions in mind so that PVP can be seen as more fun and inviting.

- For PVP Arena, maybe have it so when you die you keep your inventory unless you toggle on/off whether your loot drops. (Both competitors must agree to letting loot drop, if one of them disagree either play w/out loot drop or persuade them)
- Specific PVP shop in either 3 options that has your currency be items that you can pick up in the PVP area or items dropped when you kill a person (ex. Chests w/ 1-2 coins scattered across the map and when you kill a person, their death drops 4-6 coins)
- To make it not that easy to find these chests, there are difficult mobs around the PVP arena.
- These PVP shop items would be good armor and good weapons in killing people, but not in PVE situations. Also, they can only be used in the PVP areas, once they've entered back into the PVE realm/area they can't use them.
- Also for festive stuff, during seasons/holidays the PVP realm changes to such a thing. (Ex. Winter = Santa & Krampus (Bosses) & their minions walk around the pvp area; Autumn = The Pumpkin King (Boss) & his scarecrow army, etc.)

It makes the PVP area more dynamic and a little bit more kind to not-so-experienced PVP players.

I'm pretty sure Dennis has denied all efforts at making PvP be in the actual world unless it's a specific zone that is "disconnected" from the rest of the game as it wouldn't be vital to any PvE / non-PvP players.

Also, I'm very confused about why everyone always assumes you will drop loot when you die? That has never and will never be the idea of my PvP suggestion. PvP shouldn't be hardcore to the point that with one duel you lose all gear. This is why Kill points or some other form of currency for PvP is necessary. I guess maybe having a hardcore staking option would be cool, but I think that would lead to people just quitting out of duels that don't accept high stakes. Maybe three stakes options would be good. No Stakes = No Gear drops, Low Stakes = Drop a portion of gold, high stakes = everything

PvP shops were already discussed in this thread, so I'm not gonna go on about them. PvP gear rewards would be exchanged with PvP currency.

I don't like having mobs in a PvP mode unless they are directly linked to the PvP and the winning of a game. An acceptable mob would be something like a King or a Commander you have to kill before you win the game. Or troops that help you fight enemy troops and players, meaning mixed PvP/PvE.

I already discussed adding an adaptation system to gear, making PvE gear worse in PvP and PvP gear worse in PvE.

As mentioned above, I don't like the addition of PvE mobs to PvP scenarios. These kinds of bosses should be reserved for limited time raids or dungeons and not the PvP.

 

[MrDienns]

I'm pretty sure Dennis has denied all efforts at making PvP be in the actual world unless it's a specific zone that is "disconnected" from the rest of the game as it wouldn't be vital to any PvE / non-PvP players

At best I've given a preference. PVP is not there at alpha nor has the content team spent but a minute on this topic specifically. So nothing has all efforts denied at.

 

[Euvrounin]

When you die in the battle, you'll die irl.

 

[Zirker]

I like the idea of there being some arenas where there is also enviroment threats/monsters, that way "cheesier" builds, for example builds that focus on crowd control, become more appealing if you can get damage from an "outside" source.

 

[Sam]

TLDR: I think it's a great idea from just briefly skimming over your suggestion. However, a cool addition to the PvP scene is maybe guild vs guild rather than individual vs individual. Certain guild requirements need to be met, such as player count, varying roles, player activity at the time, etc. If anyone has ever played Runescape, it'd kinda be like Castle Wars from it.

 

[KabbyDankGod]

TLDR: I think it's a great idea from just briefly skimming over your suggestion. However, a cool addition to the PvP scene is maybe guild vs guild rather than individual vs individual. Certain guild requirements need to be met, such as player count, varying roles, player activity at the time, etc. If anyone has ever played Runescape, it'd kinda be like Castle Wars from it.

Guild V guild would be nice, and could be added into the arena system. Even a leaderboard with top guilds could be present.

 

[Dsawemd]

MMORPGs that incentivize pvp are engaged with much more heavily by the playerbase. Yes to pvp.

It should be an unprotected grind (maybe early level sandbox grind), but veterans should be incentivized not to kill grinding new players. Usually this is done by only allowing kills between players of similar level to count towards elo/score.

Restrictive gating top tier items behind pvp (only the Tourney winner/top raiding guild gets the best gear) is bad idea. Loosely gating top tier items behind pvp (you have to go to a pvp zone to gather the best gear) is a good idea.

KEEP YOUR PVP PERMISSION SYSTEM SIMPLE. Minecraft servers die if you need an entire town to agree to go to war in order to pvp. The best servers regulate pvp though incentives, then let the players make their own choices and deal with those consequences.